Review of Trey Ratcliff’s HDR DVD
September 9, 2010 by Kivus · View Comments
I have made it fairly clear that one of my primary photographic influences is Trey Ratcliff and his HDR photography that he posts at Stuck in Customs. I am not sure exactly why I first gravitated towards Trey’s work, but I think it might be something as simple as I picked some random episode of This Week in Photography to be my first experience listening to a photography podcast and his work was recommended by one of the hosts. For someone who had no photography background, looking at Trey’s HDR work was amazing. Even some of his non-HDR stuff (the fireworks at Disney World come to mind) had a look that I wanted to have in my photography. Thankfully, Trey is very giving when it comes to HDR education. His HDR tutorial is a fantastic resource for those both learning HDR photography and looking to bring his/her HDR photography to the next level. Still, even though his HDR tutorial is great, I have difficult learning exclusively from static text on a page. It is for that reason that I found Matt Kloskowski’s HDR tutorial on Kelby Training to also be helpful as I learned HDR technique. Seeing video of someone actually working on images greatly enhanced my understanding of how to use Photomatix. Still, I intrigued when I heard that Trey was going to create a DVD of how he created his images. I admit I was a little dismayed when I saw the price for the premium package ($397, and something that I will discuss at length later), but I still decided to give it a shot in hopes that Trey would deliver the definitive HDR education package.
Though I will frequently refer in this review to “Trey Ratcliff’s HDR DVD”, what you get for your near $400 is actually a HDR education package. The package includes 4 DVDs (which total about six and half hours of content and will be discussed in some detail later), access to the “Clubhouse” section of Stuck in Customs (a private forum dedicated to HDR education), and Trey’s eBook Top 10 Mistakes in HDR Processing (which I have previously reviewed on this site). The video segments that make up the DVDs appear to be collected from a workshop that Trey conducted over the course of a couple of days. Additionally, in this premium edition, you get the working files that are used in the screencasts so that you can follow along with the tutorials and you get additional bracketed images that Trey has taken so that you can practice processing additional HDR images without having to take the bracketed exposures yourself.
I am going to start off my review with more of a nuts and bolts examination of the individual parts and break down what you find on the individual DVDS. I’ll end with some more overarching examination of the whole package, which will include some analysis of both Trey’s photographic style and teaching style. Feel free to skip to the end if that type of analysis is all you really want.
Disc 1 sets the stage for the rest of the instruction found in the collection. It includes both a general introductory video and and a more in-depth introductory video that explains some concepts about both human vision and photographic vision. I’ll make the comment now and then leave it be for the rest of the review: The video quality of Trey himself talking is not particularly strong. I am in no way a videographer, but the video quality seems to be less than what I get from even my Flip MinoHD. This really should not matter, since it’s the information that he’s conveying that’s important, but at a $400 price point, I had higher expectations of the video quality. The video quality issue made me most nervous during the segment that was essentially a workshop introductory slide show. In this segment, slides are filmed while projected on the wall instead of overlaying the slides into the video presentation. On the next section of the film, thankfully, where Trey talks about some of his more famous photos, the photos themselves are overlaid, at a high resolution, into the video instead of simply filming from a projector. The section where Trey talks about his photos is full of information on both HDR technique (“7 stops into the sun”) and also on general blog strategy (How often should you post images?). The last introductory segment is an examination of what Trey keeps in his bag. These “What’s in the Bag?” segments are pretty standard, and always seem to scratch an inquisitive itch with photographers.
The second major block of videos on Disc 1 is a pair of videos of photo walks that Trey led. In both of these videos, Trey talks to the walkers (and as a result, the viewer) and gives his thought process as he’s setting up for and taking his HDR shots. The closest comparison that I can give these segments is a recent Kelby Training class with Jay Maisel. Both that class, and Trey’s walks, show a top level photographer, in his own environment, doing what they do best. I am not sure if Trey’s segments would have been helped by adding in a host that could ask him questions, but I do know that I was left wishing those segments could have been longer.
The final segment on Disc 1 is the first part of what is probably the “meat” of the DVD set: an “over the shoulder” look at Trey processing a HDR image. Though these videos will generally feature a few seconds of footage of Trey talking to workshop attendees, a majority of each of these segments will be a screencast from Trey’s computer. The screen cast software that was used to create the video looks to be the same they use on creativeLive, and it does a good job of showing what keyboard commands are being entered, as well as giving a good indicator of where the cursor is. I think that, generally, you can watch any of the HDR screencast videos in any order you like, however, I would probably watch the Paris Church Tutorial on Disc 1 before moving to the videos on Disc 2. A number of the videos will discuss how Trey manages his images (Trey has also written a full eBook on that subject), but this particular tutorial goes the most in-depth on how to work with Lightroom, Photoshop and Photomatix. This video also makes it clear that Trey is not afraid to use plugins in his work (Noiseware and Topaz Adjust were used specifically in this image). Even as someone who’s read Trey’s HDR Tutorial a number of times (both online and in his A World in HDR book), seeing him actually process an image provided an increase in my understanding about HDR processing.
Disc 2 consists primarily of screencasts of Trey processing HDR images. The one exception on this disc is a video that shows how to crop and straighten images in Photoshop. People who have familiarity with Photoshop (or Lightroom or Aperture) will probably not gain a lot from this one segment. The screencasts on this disc cover a wide variety of topics. If you are still unsure about how to setup your images in Photoshop, than I recommend starting on the Venetian in Vegas tutorial, since that tutorial covers the “getting images into Photoshop” topic in great detail. Other tutorials on this disk really start to explore Trey’s methods for mixing the underlying bracketed photos into the tone mapped photos, including sections on fixing blown out highlights, modifying the color of certain image elements, and really looking in-depth on how to make good looking skies in a HDR image. Disc 2 is also the first time that Trey introduces NIk Software’s Viveza into the workflow (he also uses some onOne software, however, I tend to zone out on those parts because I’ve always disliked the interfaces on most onOne Software (Genuine Fractals being the exception)).
Disc 3 also contains a number of screencasts, but these screencasts seem to focus more on making sure that a specific topic is learned. These include things like noise reduction, removing halos from HDR images, handling moving objects and people within HDR images, processing single RAW HDR images, converting HDR images to Black & White (not surprisingly, using Nik’s Silver Efex Pro), and “double tone mapping’. Some of these technique segments will probably be more valuable to some users than to others. The halo removal one is probably the most important, since haloing is a common problem in HDR images. The noise reduction technique (using “Trey’s Burst Effect”) and the “double tone mapping” section are particularly interesting since these are techniques that people who follow Trey’s work will quickly recognize. On the other hand, if you really want to learn black & white conversion with Silver Efex Pro, then you might be better off spending time attending one of Nik’s daily webinars.
Disc Four
Discs 1 through 3, I believe, are all in the “Basic Edition” of the DVD, but Disc 4 is only included in the Premium Edition. Disc 4 contains three additional screencasts from Trey that show Trey processing the images he took during the Austin Photowalk that was shown on Disc 1. These videos are purely screencasts, however, and they do not include the few seconds of workshop footage that introduce other image tutorials as well as the audience interaction aspect of the other tutorials (depending on your point of view, the lack of the audience interaction could be seen as either a positive or a negative.) The screencasts on this disc are pretty comprehensive, showing some of Trey’s advanced image remixing techniques, as well as his “double tone mapping” and his “Trey burst” effect. They were a solid way to bring together all the techniques that were shown in the earlier discs.
In addition to the screencast tutorials that are found on Disc 4, Disc 4 contains all of the bracketed images that are used in the video tutorials found on all four discs in the DVD collection. Though watching the DVDs are instructive, having the ability to follow along while using the same images being used on screen is extremely helpful. The disc also includes extra bracketed images to practice the techniques on images outside of those Trey uses in the tutorials. Finally, Disc 4 includes a copy of Trey’s eBook “Top 10 Mistakes in HDR Processing”, that normally costs $10.
CLUBHOUSE AND COMMENTS
Purchase of Trey’s HDR DVD set gives you access to an exclusive Stuck in Customs forum known as “The Clubhouse”. At this point, I can’t say how active this forums will be, however, based on an examination of the current threads and posts, it does seem to have promise.
At this point, I will also add in a few general comments that did not seem to fit in any other section. This is not a DVD set about how to use Photomatix, it’s a DVD set about how to create HDR images. There is much more Photoshop instruction provided on these DVDs than I originally anticipated, including some rudimentary instruction on how to do things like basic masking. Trey uses CS4 for his tutorials, which means that certain things that would be possible if using CS5 (including Content Aware fill) are not covered. Additionally, he makes a mention of a masking plugin for Photoshop that is probably unnecessary with the enhanced refine edge techniques found in in CS5.
After both reading his ebook, Composing the Photo, and watching this DVD set, I feel that I have a decent amount of evidence to craft my opinion about Trey’s teaching style. Trey is very matter-a-fact with his advice, and makes things seem, possibly, simpler than they are. Hearing him mention that his background involved computer science was not at all a surprise for me, as that could easily explain why he is able to explain rather complicated procedures and processes in a very straightforward manner. Also, he only explains those features of the software that he himself uses. He doesn’t waste time saying “button X does this, but I don’t use it”, he gets right to the heart of how he creates images. For someone like me, who appreciates getting a large amount of information in a short amount of time, I thoroughly enjoyed his approach. If, however, you are a more contemplative learner, especially someone who wants to know the underlying details of why to move slider Y, then Trey’s HDR DVD set might frustrate you some.
PRICE
As is evidenced by the the amount of content listed in this review, Trey’s HDR DVD set is a comprehensive HDR education package. Despite the quantity, and quality, of content, however, there is still the question of whether or not the the package is worth it’s nearly $400 price point. Unfortunately, that is not a question that I can answer for everyone. Compare the $400 for the DVD to the $999 that it costs to attend his already sold out workshop in Austin or the $1,415 that it costs to attend his already sold out workshop in London. Though I cannot predict exactly what Trey will do in either one of these workshops, I cannot imagine that you would get any more comprehensive HDR education than you will get on this DVD set. You might say that in the workshop you get direct access to Trey, which is something you can’t get on a DVD, however, that is what the Stuck in Customs “Clubhouse” is for. Based on the posts I’ve seen in the Clubhouse, it looks like Trey is fairly active in that forum, as are a number of fairly strong HDR experts, who can provide you with HDR advice. Whether or not this type of advice acquisition is an acceptable substitute for direct access to Trey in a workshop is something that you will have to decide for yourself. In fact, having to decide for yourself is what you’re going to have to do about the price point. The HDR education that you receive from Trey’s DVD set is quite strong, however, $400, for many people, is outside the realm of “impulse buy”. I would say that you must be ready to make a commitment to being a better HDR photographer before making the purchase. Also, as a rather obvious point, you should probably be a fan of Trey’s style and you should want to learn how to create images in that style, since that is the type of image that you are going to learn how to craft.
CONCLUSION
In his introductory video, Trey states that his goal in his workshop is that you “make significant steps forward” in your ability to create HDR images. If you purchase this DVD set, follow along with the examples that Trey provides, and, generally, take his advice to heart, I have a fairly high degree of confidence that you will take significant steps towards being a better HDR photographer. The qualifier on that statement is that you will be a better HDR photographer in the stlye of Trey Ratcliff. If you are not a fan of his work and style, this is not the DVD set for you. Trey is an artist. He has particular things that he likes and those likes have shaped his vision. He has developed a process that allows him to make images that reflect that vision. If you visit Stuck in Customs and find his work to be beautiful, and/or inspiring, then his DVD set will bring you closer to making those kinds of images. Though Trey’s online HDR tutorial is a fabulous resource, seeing him actually process a number of HDR images will, most likely, provide you a much deeper level of understanding. Some of the techniques on Disc 3 alone, particularly about removing halos and handling objects in motion in a HDR image, really can help you take your HDR photography to the next level.
Trey, on a podcast interview, once referred to Rick Sammon as one of the “godfathers of photography”. If you’re going to make a list of the godfathers of HDR photography, however, than Trey himself would most definitely be on that list. If you are a fan of Trey’s style and want to take your HDR photography to a higher level, than this DVD set is something you should contemplate. The only question is, are you ready to invest $400 in order to gain access to comprehensive, high quality, HDR photography education?
Product Information Page for Trey’s HDR DVD
NOTE: Like all products from Stuck in Customs that I have reviewed within the last 2 months, the links I have to Trey’s HDR DVD set are affiliate links and, as a result, I will get a small percentage of the sale if you buy the DVD via a link on my site. I do not think this impacts my review of the product, except that the primary reason I could afford to buy the DVD set was because people bought it off an affiliate link I posted when Trey released the DVD. The other reason that I could review the DVD is that Trey’s contact in charge of affiliate programs gave me a discount that helped closed the gap between the DVD’s cost and my personal affiliate earnings. Even with this help, the DVD was purchased by me at, what I feel, is a substantial cost. Once again, I do not feel any of these items impacted my review of the DVD, however feel free to take them into account when reading my review.
Waiting
September 8, 2010 by Kivus · View Comments
This picture helps me illustrate a little bit of evolution in taste. When I first created it, I thought “this picture will be on the front page for sure.” Now, however, I can’t decide whether or not I think it’s too boring or if meets my minimal level of “interesting-ness”. Also, i did not use to mind highly saturated, almost nuclear feeling, colors. Now, however, the pictures on the left wall kind of bother me.
I might use this image to explore some of the techniques I’ve learned while watching Trey Ratcliff’s new HDR DVD, since remixing in one of the original images might be a good way to tone down the pictures on the wall. I will have a review of that DVD coming up fairly soon. I’ve finally watched all six and half hours of content and I have quite an extensive review in its early draft stages.
Reading my Instapaper Queue on my Kindle
September 5, 2010 by Kivus · View Comments
Since the release of Apple’s iPad I have viewed it as a device that would serve a very specific use case: reading articles I’ve tagged in Instapaper, while I’m sitting on my couch. My general workflow concerning RSS and information in general is to tag in Instapaper anything that I want to read and then take certain blocks of time where I go through my Instapaper queue. The primary problem with this workflow is that I don’t really like having to sit there, with my computer on my laptop, and just read. Reading, for me, is usually an activity that I like to do with other stimuli either turned off, or a least turned down, and reading on a laptop has never given me that experience. The combination of the LCD screen and the temptation of a keyboard that could easily whisk me off to some other application means that I could never fully get into a reading mode. I hoped that an iPad could change that, but at its current $499 price point, it simply is not in the cards for my student budget. On the other hand, a WiFi only Kindle comes in at a mere $139, which I could make work, but could the Kindle fulfill my reading Instapaper articles on the couch use case?
This isn’t an issue of a comic where I need to keep the big reveal to the end: The Kindle is a great device for catching up on your Instapaper queue. I will give a breakdown of the process that I use to allow for a one click “sync” from all seven of my Instapaper folders to the Kindle. Before I get into that analysis though, a few caveats. The process, as I have created it, is Mac only. I use both Automator and Hazel and I have no idea if there are PC equivalents for those things. My Automator script requires the use of Apple Mail, so you’ll have to have that setup and have it be able to send from an account that your Kindle is configured to receive. Additionally, Hazel is not a free product, so if you want to use this process, you’re going to have purchase it. Finally, I have setup my process to use the WiFi delivery mechanism on my Kindle. If you want to use 3G, then this process will not be free. The cost will vary depending on the size of your Instapaper folders and the articles in them. You will want to check on your Amazon Kindle charge limits before really utilizing this process.
Before delving into how I sync all of my Instapaper folders to my Kindle, it’s important to point out that Instapaper does provide a fairly easy to use system to deliver 20 articles to your Kindle.The instructions are pretty easy to follow and if you don’t mind keeping
your Unread items in just your “Read Later” folder, you’re good to go. It’s also useful for those times you’re away from your computer and can’t hit the “one click” necessary to trigger the Kindle sync process (though there are numerous ways to automate the one click process, those are beyond the scope of what I’m going to write here). Also, there are some people who will be fine using the Kindle’s built in web browser to use Instapaper. That might be a perfectly acceptable alternative to show people, but to me, the experience just wasn’t what I was looking for.
The first step in creating the Instapaper-to-Kindle process is writing a brief Automator script that will send the files to your Kindle. Open up Automator and create a new workflow. My workflow looks like this: (1) Get Selected Finder Items, (2) New Mail Message (enter your Kindle email address in the To: field (I used my “free.kindle.com” address since I figured I’d always be on WiFi with my Kindle when I did this), give a subject if you want, and choose an account from the list that you have already setup your Kindle to receive emails from), (3) Add Attachments to Front Message, (4) Send outgoing Messages, and (5) Show Growl Notification (I just titled it “Kindle Files Successfully Sent”). Save your Automator workflow to a location you’ll remember in the next step.

The second step is to create a Hazel rule. You’re going to want to create a rule that operates on your Downloads folder (i.e. the folder where your browser will download items. For me, that’s actually my Downloads folder). The rule is pretty straight forward: If Extension is mobi then: (1) Run the Automator Script just created and (2) Move the mobi file to the trash (This last step is probably not necessary but I don’t want a bunch of Kindle files hanging around in my Downloads folder after I’ve already sent them to my Kindle).

At this point, you should be able to go to your Instapaper account and either from your general “Read Later” folder, or from any individual folder, click the “Kindle” icon on the right.
This will download the Kindle file to your downloads folder, at which point Hazel will see the the file, call the Automator script that sends the email, and then move the file to the trash. You’ll end up getting the file on your Kindle shortly thereafter. For me, having to click the “Kindle” Icon on each of my folders was still too cumbersome. In order to streamline the process, I created a boomark of link from the Kindle icon for each folder (for Read Later, this is probably http://www.instapaper.com/mobi, while each individual folder will be that link with a /FOLDERID (which is just a number Instapaper assigned to your folder) after it.) I put each of these bookmarks, and just these bookmarks, into a folder of bookmarks in Safari. Now, when I want to sync all my Instapaper folders. I just choose my Safari Bookmark Folder and choose “Open in Tabs”. Safari will then download individual Kindle files for each of my Instapaper folders into my Downloads folder, where Hazel will take over.
The main negative with my process is it’s a one way push. Once I read an article on my Kindle, I have to archive it on Instapaper.com (or the Instapaper iPhone app) if I don’t want that article to show again next time I run my process. This can be an monotonous activity, especially going through all of my folders, but it’s a small price to pay in order to get the reading experience I want on my device.
It all Falls Down
September 5, 2010 by Kivus · View Comments
When I listen to the Digital Photo Experience podcast, Juan Pons talks a lot about the waterfalls in North Carolina. I believe he may even teach workshops where he takes people these waterfalls. Since I use my glorified point and shoot, Nikon P6000, for all of my shooting, it’s rare that I get the right combination of light and a place to put my Zipshot so I can get the long exposure necessary to get the silky water style waterfall image (If I was using a dSLR I would put on an ND filter to reduce the light and therefore allow for a longer exposure). Lucky for me, I found a place in Maine that had both the right amount of light for a longer exposure and a flat place to my Zipshot (okay, my aunt found it.)
A Review of Trey Ratcliff’s Latest eBook Offerings
September 3, 2010 by Kivus · View Comments
Intro | Top Ten Mistakes in HDR Processing | Composing the Photo
In a recent post about HDR News & Education, I mentioned and briefly reviewed Trey Ratcliff’s ebook: Top Ten Mistakes in HDR Processing. My review of that book could probably be classified as as “luke warm”. I liked the book conceptually, and Trey’s images were beautiful, but I wanted more substantive instruction on the particular techniques required to fix the problems he mentioned.
About a week ago, however, I received an email from Trey (well, his “ecommerce representative”) explaining that there was a new “bonus version” of the Top Ten Mistakes in HDR Processing eBook and that I could upgrade for free. I jumped at this offer, and I have to say, the new “Special Fixes” sections that have been added to the book are a major upgrade. Since the book has been so upgraded, I’ve decided to do a more thorough review of it, as well as a review of Trey’s latest eBook: Composing the Photo.
Top Ten Mistakes in HDR Processing
Trey Ratcliff’s Top Ten Mistakes in HDR Processing eBook is a collection of common problems that crop up in HDR photos. These include things like halos, over saturation of colors, and “dirty clouds”. Each one of these problems is presented with an example image that shows the problem, a brief description of how to fix the problem and a sample image that has been done “correctly”. This was the original content of the eBook (and I believe you can still buy a version that includes just this) and, frankly, it felt a little bit lacking. Though Trey’s images are as gorgeous as ever, some of the problems he described called out for much more detailed explanations of how to fix the problem. The new “bonus version” of the book contains “Special Fix” sections for a number of the problems that are the more detailed explanations I was looking for. These “special fixes” sections contain screenshots from Photoshop and almost step-by-step instructions of how to fix the problem. The addition of these new sections raise the book from “nice to have” status for a HDR photographer to a notch just below “must have”. The only thing keeping this book from fully reaching “must have” status is that some of sections (like “localized halos”) give a basic solution of “clean up in Photoshop after HDR processing” but then do not provide a detailed “special fix” of just what to do in Photoshop.
If you watched or listened to any photography podcasts in the last year, you undoubtedly stumbled across David duChemin and his book Within the Frame. TThe book was about the art of taking photographs, talking about vision and expression without going into the minutia of which aperture or shutter speed to use. Composing the Photo is Trey Ratcliff’s version of that type of book.
The book follows up its introduction with a number of photography related exercises to help start expanding photographic vision. It then goes into sections that could loosely be defined as “rules” (however, Trey makes it clear that none of these particular rules need to always followed (other than “Trey’s Rule of Thirds”)). These sections contain information that is very similar to what one would find in David duChemin’s book, only presented in what I feel is a tighter, easier to understand package.
The “book” section of the eBook (I assume this where the basic version of the book would conclude) concludes with an examination of what elements in landscape photos create the most popular photos. Backed-up with numbers from his own personal Flickr page, Trey expands how to create a picture that people will find pleasing. It’s a solid way to tie the earlier discussed concepts together.
The bonus version of the eBook ends with a collection of “notes” on composition (I assume this section is not in the standard version of the book). These notes could be compared to an FAQ about composition. There are a number of examples of how Trey composed and cropped images to get what he felt was the ideal composition.
When Within the Frame came out, I figured there would be more books on the way that were similar in their style and content. Trey Ratcliff’s latest eBook, Composing the Photo, is the first one that I’ve found that tries climb that proverbial mountain. Though I do not intend to take anything away from David’s book, I found Trey’s takes to be both tighter and easier to understand. While his earlier eBook, Top Ten Mistakes in HDR Processing, focused exclusively on Trey’s bread and butter of HDR photography, this eBook should speak to photographers as a whole. I think that any beginner through intermediate-advanced photographer would learn something from Trey’s book and at a $10 price point for the bonus version, it’s pretty closer to “no-brainer” status.
NOTE: The links I have setup to Trey’s books are affiliate links, which means I get a small percentage of the sale of the books if you get there through my site. I personally do not feel that has impacted my reviews in any way, however, feel free to take this information into account when evaluating my review.
Come Fly with Me
September 2, 2010 by Kivus · View Comments
I have very rarely been harassed when taking pictures, but every so often I do get a strange look when I pull out my camera. I think that on an airplane might be one of those times when people just really don’t expect you to take out the camera, so I did get a few looks. Ultimately, I really don’t care.
This picture came from my flight to Maine, but the better shots would have been on my flight back from Maine. Unfortunately, I was on the wrong side of the plane (where the sun was setting), and I didn’t feel like dealing with asking 3 people if I could crawl over them to take a picture (especially when they had their shade drawn.) Maybe next time.
Bonding
August 31, 2010 by Kivus · View Comments
I was standing on a bridge in Maine, looking at out the coast lines. There were the rocky coasts, waves crashing against the rocks, and a few boats slowing crossing over the horizon. I took my camera off my eye for a minute to take a break and saw this father, walking with his daughter, down to the water. The father was holding his daughter’s hand and his daughter was wearing a little pink backpack, as they walked down to the edge of the water. To be honest, I was so busy, watching and smiling, that I almost forgot to bring my camera back up to take a picture.
The lens on my Nikon P6000 isn’t so great, so you only end up barely seeing the girl, and barely seeing her pink backpack. But, frankly, I don’t care, this picture just makes me feel good. (Oh, and yeah, I have no idea if it was really father / daughter, but in my story, that’s what they are.)
All Aboard the Appledore
August 29, 2010 by Kivus · View Comments
Since coming back from Maine, with hundreds of images on multiple memory cards, it has been a struggle not to just throw up all the images I took. I’d say that I have 3-4 that are portfolio worthy, another 50-60 that will eventually be put up as Snapshots. Some people, like Thomas Hawk, take so many photos that they can put up 20-30 a day on Flickr. I just don’t have that kind of picture volume even if I try to take at least a few pictures every day. I wouldn’t mind getting to that level, but for now, I’ve pretty much settled into a photo every other day pace.
In addition to editing photos, I’ve been sending a decent about of time on some new site features. The one new section that I’ve completed is reviews, which consolidates all the reviews I’ve done to date.















